-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:13 AM
To: Twin Pine
Subject: Thanks for your rewriting of your articles


I"m sorry I had so many requests and I am fortunate that your previous articles were helpful and I keep on working at the problem until I feel I am close to getting it fixed as I just kept on plugging away at the problem. I do believe that I am close to the solution and I am now back to just repairing the water pump and I will OK. I am taking the boat into the boat mechanic that worked on it last year and have them look over the pump to see if they have any warranty on their work or at least address the issue of putting in the wrong grommet that came in the rebuild kit.

I have learned a lot this year working on my engine, reading your site and my SELOC repair manual. Last year I could not do the work because I have cancer and the cancer treatments were rigorous.

If you know how to obtain a specific repair manual for a specific Johnson motor I would be interested in getting one.

Thanks again
MR


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:37 PM
To: Michael R
Subject: RE: water pump / upper grommet in exhaust water tube


With your numerous recent requests, instead of reading each & digesting your potential problems, then researching & answering each, I looked at my article on water circulation problems http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/water_circulation.htm  & rewrote it including more photos.

I apparently got you on the right track early on & got the motor running, but now you seem to have more questions than I am willing to try to answer.

Sorry if I have failed your expectations, but of the many of these type of inquiries I get each week, after a while I get bogged down. So I felt it better to redo the article & try to let you better understand what may be wrong.

LeeRoy Wisner
-------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Roman [mailto:mroman59@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:28 PM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: water pump / upper grommet in exhaust water tube

My Johnson 9.9 has two upper grommets and I inspected them as I separated the exhausting housing just enough from the power head to see their condition. They both looked fine. While I had the lower section off, I hooked up a hose to the bottom of the copper inlet water tube that fits into the grommet of the water pump and turned on the hose. Water came out of the pee hole, no clog, however a stream of water was running down the copper water tube. It turns out that there is a pin hole size hole in my water tube. At first I thought that this was the problem to my no water circulation when running the motor, but a mechanic told me that that small hole should not be the cause of my problem and that I should just take a little permatex and dab over the hole if I didn't want it to leak.

Is he right?

Since, he says that this is not my problem, I am back to assuming it is the water pump. I looked at the water pump and I notice two things.

1) the grommet in the water pump is not the same as my original (it was rebuilt last year by a local boat shop). I keep the old water pump and that is why I know. However, the boat shop that did the installation stated that the wrong grommet would not be the cause of my water circulation problem, but it could cause the engine to overheat.

Is he right?

2). The impeller in the stainless steal cup that inserts into the plastic housing is not centered quite right. By that, I mean as you visibly look at it while in the cup with the ends rotated, one side of the impeller is closer to one side than the other. I dont know if that is OK or not, or normal, but when I look at my original pump, that was put in in 1989 the impeller in the cup is perfectly centered.

Do you think any of my observations would be the cause of my problem?

Thanks,
MR
-----------------

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 6:19 AM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: changing the upper water tube grommet


All I want to do is inspect/change my uper water tube grommet on my 9.9 HP Johnson, J10ELCES motor. I am reading your section on Powehead/Midsection.

1. In order to change this grommet do I actually have to take the power head off? Cant I remove the required bolts and drop the mid section/exhaust housing down while leaving the power head in the cover or do I have to lift the power head out to get to this grommet?

2. I have removed the 6 bolts that hold the powerhead to the exhaust housing. I see the 3 motor mount bolts that you mention, but those bolts mount the power head to the lower engine cover. It does not seem like I would need to remove these bolts and the power head to get to the grommet. It looks like I should be able to remove the 6 bolts on the exhaust housing and slide the housing off from the powerhead. Am I right?

3. As it sits now, I tried to lift the engine off the steering bracket, thinking that I could then remove the exhaust housing while it is off. I used WD40 and sprayed into the area where the housing sets on the bracket to loosen it up and it seem lose but it will not lift off. The other problem that I can see as a potential problem, if I were to lift the engine off the steering bracket is that the shift rod extends down through the gasket into the housing and if I pull the engine off and drop it down, I would have to be careful not to damage or bend the rod. Do I need to remove the rod first before lifting the engine off the steering bracket? If so, how would I do that?

Sorry about so many questions, but I do have a SELOC repair manual which does not cover any of these types of procedures and it if frustrating when you pay $40 and don't get any information on removing the mid section.

Any help is appreciated.
MR
-----------------------------------------------

Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:28 PM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: water pump / upper grommet in exhaust water tube

My Johnson 9.9 has two upper grommets and I inspected them as I separated the exhausting housing just enough from the power head to see their condition. They both looked fine. While I had the lower section off, I hooked up a hose to the bottom of the copper inlet water tube that fits into the grommet of the water pump and turned on the hose. Water came out of the pee hole, no clog, however a stream of water was running down the copper water tube. It turns out that there is a pin hole size hole in my water tube. At first I thought that this was the problem to my no water circulation when running the motor, but a mechanic told me that that small hole should not be the cause of my problem and that I should just take a little permatex and dab over the hole if I didn't want it to leak.

Is he right?

Since, he says that this is not my problem, I am back to assuming it is the water pump. I looked at the water pump and I notice two things.

1) the grommet in the water pump is not the same as my original (it was rebuilt last year by a local boat shop). I keep the old water pump and that is why I know. However, the boat shop that did the installation stated that the wrong grommet would not be the cause of my water circulation problem, but it could cause the engine to overheat.

Is he right?

2). The impeller in the stainless steal cup that inserts into the plastic housing is not centered quite right. By that, I mean as you visibly look at it while in the cup with the ends rotated, one side of the impeller is closer to one side than the other. I dont know if that is OK or not, or normal, but when I look at my original pump, that was put in in 1989 the impeller in the cup is perfectly centered.

Do you think any of my observations would be the cause of my problem?

Thanks,
MR

-------------------

Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:37 AM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: grommet under power head

Hello,

I have a problem that I hope you can help me with. My Johnson 10HP is not pumping water. Model J10ELCES. This engine has never been in salt water. Last year I replaced the water pump and when I took my boat in for service to fix an engine no-start problem (short in kill switch) the mechanic stated that it was not pumping water properly so I thought that there may have been a problem with my installation. He said that there were wrong parts in the pump. He repaired it and it worked so I didn't question him, however, my records show I purchased kit 394711 for this motor which is the correct one.

Since the repair I have had the boat in the water three times. When I was checking it this year, before going out I noticed the pump had failed. It was working for awhile in the driveway using muffs and garden hose, so I assume that there is no clogging in the pee hole.

Since the pump failed, I decided to break it down and look. I looked at the pump and decided to compare it to the old pump (original pump since 1989), which I had kept for some reason. Well the pump in the unit is different in two ways that I notice. First the water pump housing is different, but this is to be expected because according to my information the part no. was changed from 391571 to 435390 (OMC water pump kit complete #394711). When I installed the pump, I remember that the housing was different and the kit came with two short bolts to replace the two longer bolts in the old housing style.

This kit comes with three different style grommets. I noticed that the grommet that is in the water pump now is different from the grommet in the original water pump that I saved. No replacement number for this part is mentioned. Therefore, I now question the mechanic who said that I had the wrong parts in it. However, the only difference now between his installation and the original pump is the housing style and the grommet he installed. Since I have the original pump, I am assuming that I put in the exact grommet in the kit that matched. Whether he replaced all the other parts that I had just replaced I don't know the answer to that.

Upon inspection of the water pump that I just took off, I can find no visable signs of damage to the impeller. This pump has the metal impeller housing cup which looks new and clean.

So here is my question:

1. Besides a plugged pee hole and bad water pump, is there anything else in this engine that would prevent water from circulating that could be my problem?

2. If the mechanic used the wrong grommet of the three in the kit, could this cause water from not being circulated? I would like to take my original pump in and show him the one he put in if this is the cause?

3. Should I be able to visibly see damage to my impeller or could it look in good condition and still not work. I did notice that the impeller rotation in the housing is the same as the original pump. But I see no damage to the rubber ends of the impeller.

4. Since your website points out that a water pump can be ruined, if run only minutes without flow, it may have went bad while I was testing it out in my drive way. So if the grommet or other cause is not my problem do you think just replacing the impeller, rather than a whole new kit could solve the problem?

Thank you,
MR
--------------------
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 4:03 AM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: water pump

Well I finally got my motor running and it sounded pretty good, however I noticed no water coming from the water pump so I shut her down. I had the lower unit in a barrel. Before that I was testing it using the plastic ear covers and hose and it may have been during that process that I neglected to turn on the water and damaged the pump.

If I find out that my pump is not pumping water and needs repair, what do I need to replace. The water pump was rebuilt with a kit last year and I was wondering if I could get by with just replacing the impeller only.

What are your thoughts?

Also in your last email you had a file attached to it called winmail.dat (4KB), but I could not open it. Can you tell me which program opens this file.

Thanks
MR
-------------------------
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:28 PM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: Water pump issue - please help

I have a 1989 9.9 HP Johnson engine, with a carburetor that was put on to make it equivalent to a 15HP motor a few years later. The carburetor is the plastic bowl type and was probably put on in 1992 model, because according to the iboats.com website the diagram shows the carburetor with the Cam Follower lever is made of plastic and an O-ring is used to hold it onto the carb. body. I purchased the boat around 1995. Last year I rebuilt the carburetor and had a local shop adjust it for me, while they did some other work. This year I was testing it out and before I took it out and noticed gas leak out as I primed the bulb. You instructed me to check the carb. for dirt and/or adjust the float. I did both. I thought i did see some dirt while I cleaning it in the float valve seat assembly. I used carb cleaner and air to clean up the car and I slightly adjusted the float using the metal tab according to your instructions. That took care of the gas
leakage problem. Now when I prime the bulb it gets firm.

I had the boat out once since then and it seem to run fine. As I was coming in from the lake the engine was having trouble staying on at idle. I had no success getting it to idle so I tried to adjust the idle. According to my instructions, being an electric start model, the throttle cable adjustment must be remove prior to any adjustment. Once the engine is idled properly, then the throttle cable can be reconnected.

The only two things to adjust on this carb is the slow speed idle screw, which I did not touch since it was set by the mechanic last year and throttle stop screw which I did play with. There is a cam follower screw adjustment which I know is used to make sure the roller is touching the cam during synchronization.

Anyways, once I have the engine running to some degree, it sounds good and then dies. I do notice when I have it running and then try to mannually give it throttle by either advancing the throttle arm or by pushing down on the cam follower lever, the enngine will die. While I was on the lake the day before, I did not notice any problem with the engine dying while giving it the throttle.

My first thought, since I can not get the engine to idle well at all is that I am back to a carburetor problem.

My second thought is that when I give it some throttle and it dies then it is either a carburetor problem or possibly a fuel pump problem.

If you have any thoughts that could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it.

I thought that you mentioned a troubleshooting web page that you have. If so could you give me the link.

In the mean time I have Johnson 1971-1989 Outboard Repair Manual by SELOC that I will look in to see if it can give me any clues. It seems to be helpful on some repairs buy not so good at finding the cause so that you can repair it.

Thanks
MR

------------------------------------

Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:03 PM
To: Twin Pine
Subject: RE: Problem - Help please


Thanks for you speedy reply. I took the boat out for a spin just to see if there was a possible chance that the carburetor would clean it self out. The engine started fine and was running smooth until I approached the speed zone and I gave it the throttle. When I did, the engine began to have loss of power and eventually died. I tried restarting it and the engine would not turn over. I checked any fuses that I thought would be a possibility. No bad fuses were found. My batteries are new and connections are secure. When I got it home, I tried to start it and I could hear the click coming from the solenoid and thats all. It appears that I have two separate problems, the carburetor and now an electrical problem. Since it does not even turn over, what do you think could be the possible causes? Solenoid, starter or other.

Any help is appreciated.

MR

-----------------------------------------------

--- On Sun, 5/10/09, Twin Pine wrote:
Subject: RE: Problem - Help please
Date: Sunday, May 10, 2009, 8:44 PM

 I do not think you need any new parts if you rebuilt it last year, just take it apart, inspect & clean the old parts.  Did you purchase a carb repair kit last year?  If so in there somewhere should have been instructions on how to adjust the float, or as per my instructions below.

 "When reassembling, place the float back in position & replace the cross pin.  Tip the unit upside down & check the float height.  The now upside down unit should have the top of the float parallel with the now top of the housing.  If not, you can adjust it by bending the metal tab that acts as a stop for the float.  Be sure that the float can move up & down freely, otherwise if it binds, the motor may run at different speeds depending on how much your boat is tipped to one side or the other."
 
Also it could have some debris under the float needle & between the float seat which could be not allowing the float to shut off the fuel being pumped into the carb.

 LeeRoy Wisner

--------------------------------------------------
 
 Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:43 PM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: Problem - Help please
 
I have a 1989 Johnson 10HP outboard with at 15HP carburetor that was put on by the previous owner. See the following link (carburetor parts and carburetor kit 44). h http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/jsp/AsplIsmCcatViewBase.jsp?&lvlCode=5&pCod e=C0189211&path=BRP~A0000008~M0010434~M0010571~M0010572~C0189211&isFromCMS=f
 alse&hideAdd2CartButton=&isStandAlone=&is4CmsShop=&reqln=Unknown&reqem=Unkno
 wn&reqph=Unknown&reqFor=29&req4Browse=1&docId=&docName=&isForSupStore=true&c
CatFilter=BRP&eCatSupFldr=supplier-100-005-EJ

I rebuilt the carburetor last year and then had some electrical problems and  took it in for service, they stated they had to adjust the carburetor in addition to fixing a short in a wire that was preventing the engine from starting.
 
This year I took it out to test the engine before taking it out and I noticed I am having the exact same problem that you have described below on your web page. See below:

 If when starting, you can keep pumping the primer bulb & it does not become hard after about 3 or 4 pumps, & then fuel starts running out around the motor's lower cowling, the most likely thing wrong would be the carburetor's float needle valve is not shutting off when the bowl is full.   The motor may well run, but could flood out if the fuel pump supplies more fuel than the motor can handle.
 
I dont want to rebuild the whole carburetor again if I dont have to. Do you think you could tell me what part number form the web link (ishopmarine.com), I would need to replace, or adjust, i.e. if you think that can be done without rebuilding the whole carburetor.

Thank you
Mike R

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:13 AM
Subject: 30 September
 

Robin
-----------------------------------------------------
Reply: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:52 AM
Subject: RE: 16 January
 

I would be hesitant in believing this business as I am not sure that they understand measuring of the venturi, & just the carb throat dia. where it fits the manifold.  The venturi is in the middle of the carb & hard to measure without internal long reach type calipers.  The 9.9 hp carburetor’s internal venturi throat is .625 dia., whereas the 15 hp internal venturi throat is .875 dia. up until late 1987 when they went to a plastic topped carburetor.  I have not had a 15 new plastic type top carb in my hands to measure so do not know if the venturi is the same.   The outlet or rear throat dia. is 1.00" the same on both to match the manifold port dia.   The idle jet venturi system is also slightly different between the two hp sizes.

 

e-Bay Item number: 180318189285  may well be a 15 if he took it off a 15hp

 

However item number: 170291663104  is probably not a 15hp carb.  Look at the tag it, says 9.9   with a date of 08-81

 

The above carbs are apparently off motors from 1974 to mid year 1987 & the one you are keeping & wanting to convert is a 1991

 

I have a rebuilt 15 hp carb off about a 1978 motor that I would sell for less than they want but not sure it will function as explained above, however you might be able to interchange the timing plate cam roller & make it function.???  Maybe someday when I get all the honey-do & my projects caught up I may see if it will interchange.

 

If I were you I would try to find a different prop, you probably now have the standard 9" X 10" (it should be stamped on the prop itself) & on a heavy boat it will not allow your engine to rev up to it's full potential (be lugged down).  I would look for a 10" X 7" or a 10" X 5" which are work-horse type props for a heavy boat. This would be cheaper than going to a bigger carb.  However you may have to look at a lot on e-Bay as they are not as plentiful.  If it did not work as you need then you have at least raised the rpm enough to gain the full potential of the 9.9 & you might have to go to that prop anyway because of the HEAVY boat.  Then if you need more, try for a 15hp carb in addition to the prop. 

The 1991 OMC parts manual lists the following aluminum 3 blade props--  9" X 10",  9"X 11",   9 1/4" X 8",  9 1/2" X 10",  10" X 5",  10" X 7", & a stainless in 9 3/8" x 9"

 

Shown below is a carb you need on the left off a mid year 1987 to 1992 motor.  They have a plastic top & bottom.  On the right is one that they have for sale off a 1974 to about mid year 1987.  I have not tried to use a older all metal carb on a newer motor that uses a plastic top.  The linkage lever/cam may be slightly different & not sure just how it would function as for timing
 

This is what you need	This is the style they have for sale

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, January 14, 2009
From: Matt

There are carburetor 2 butterflies, one the main throttle & the choke.  Both have a couple of small holes in the bottom to allow a slight amount of air to pass thru.  The throttle one will be closed at an idle because the idle fuel is being diverted behind the butterfly & since it is just idling needs very little air mixture. The mainjet fuel comes into the throat at a different location (at the venturi creating a pull on the fuel as the RPM increases) & needs to be blended with the air to achieve a smooth higher speed as the timing plate is advanced. That is why a 9.9 has a smaller internal venturi dia. than the 15 HP as the 15 gains it's increased HP by being able to add more air to the richer fuel mixture, therefore gaining another 1000 RPM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Don
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009
Subject: 1973 Johnson 9 1/2 hp tiller short shaft

Hello,

Thank you for a very interesting and through maintenance and service download on OMC outboards.  I live in Indiana and my father gave me his 1973 Johnson tiller 9 ½ hp short shaft outboard.  It was used yearly in the early ‘70’s, and then put into storage properly until last year.  I have the original manual and following the “summarizing” instructions, attempted to get it running for weekly service on my 14’ Lund SSV.  I had to replace the gas filter screen gasket and plastic housing, impeller, lower unit oil, and plugs, but it seem to run fine.  I have noticed two symptoms which I hope you can provide clarity on.  First, initially rotating the throttle for 1/8^th of a turn does absolutely nothing in to increase RPM.  Is this normal?  I would say more than likely yes   I am not that familiar with the 9 1/2

 Second, with two fishermen abroad and gear, the engine barely planes the boat.  I find this odd for a small load.  The boat weighs ~ 300 lbs.  I remember going faster than it currently performs.  Trim is correct and prop is standard in perfect condition.  Reading your article, you indicated the cork may have decayed over time and may deposit into the jets.  I can check this, but my carburetor experience is limited.  Thank you for any additional insight or assurance all is well you can provide as I want to learn more.  These engines are great and I want to keep it that way.         That does not surprise me in that even my 10' fiberglas tri-hull & me alone will not plane with my 9.9hp.   

Best Regards,
Don
----------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----

From: Brian
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009
Subject: question about 9.9
 

Hi, I have a 78 johnson 9.9 w/elec. start.  This past summer it began giving me trouble starting- first after it was warmed up then cold starting- eventually once out of every 100 pulls or wearing down my battery.  After starting it ran great, just not at an idle.  I took it to a shop and they told me it was sucking air at the power head gasket. They said it ran perfect at 1/4 throttle or more but takes too much air at idle.  They proceeded to tell me that from the factory that gasket was sealed with a "gel" type of seal that eventually cracks and breaks up causing the engine to take in air.  They want $500 to fix it and that's not worth it.  So my question is where exactly is the "gel sealed power head gasket" and is there any quick fix I can do in order to get it running to sell with my small boat/trailer?  I appreciate your time and -excellent site. thanks

Brian

----------------------------------------------
Reply: Tuesday, January 6, 2009
Subject: RE: question about 9.9

 

They may be right, but I think they are looking for work & hope to cure it with a tear down, as that price should be near a complete rebuild price & where they may well find other things they have already added to the billing list.

 

#1 the most likely area for a air leak is in the intake manifold area.  There are 2 gaskets, one at the powerhead & another just on the other side of the reed valve plate about 3/16" from the other one.  These gaskets are made of a asbestos type paper & may have some sealant on them.  There is another thicker gasket between the carburetor & the intake manifold.  There could be a small leak in any of these.   I have never seen one break because old old age as they are stuck so tight to the metal that you can not salvage them on a tear down.

 

A simple way of finding a leak here is to with the cowling & the carburetor breather off, get the motor running.  Then get a can of spray WD-40.  Spray this on any of these gaskets while it is running, IF the motor speeds up, you have found the leaky area as this WD-40 will burn & when it is sucked into the motor, as it replaces the air that was leaking in.  You could isolate the LEAK, clean it up & smear some epoxy over the area sealing it.  May not look great but it should solve the problem if that is it.

 

The only other block leakage location is between the 2 halves of the block, but these are a machined mating aluminum surface & the sealant is a thin rubbery type that should never cause a problem unless someone tore it apart & used the wrong sealant.

 

There is another location that a leak could be & that is the gasket, (same asbestos type) under the fuel pump.  This is a simple fix by buying a new gasket & the fuel pump is held in place by 2 screws.  A air leak could also be anywhere in the fuel line system.

 

Another possible air leak location is in the upper crankshaft seal if it gets worn.  Here you will usually see a oily mess under the timing plate after the flywheel is removed.  This seal can be replaced without tearing the whole motor apart however.  There is one way to temporarily solve this problem if that is the case is to with the timing plate off where you can see this seal around the crankshaft, is to pour a little of the STP sticky oil treatment on top of this seal.  This treatment oil is thick & sticky enough that it will seal any air leakage for a while.

 

They could also be referring to a leaky head gasket, but I doubt it.  Here it could let water into the cylinder, or let compression from one cylinder into the other cylinder if the leak was in the exact location, either way may not good for the running of an engine.  Again this is a doable thing to replace this head-gasket without tearing the whole powerhead off the midsection.

 

The carburetor may also need cleaning as small dirt partially plugging the jets can cause problems.

 

Check your spark plugs.

From: Brian
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 4:45 PM

I'll try your suggestions next chance I get in this Pittsburgh weather.  Thanks for the advice!  Brian

_{-------------------------------------------------------------}

From: Hugh
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008
Subject: Fuel pump
 

First, thank you for making the rebuild info available. Unfortunately, for me, I didn't know it existed until after I tore the old one apart to replace with a kit. (it would help if my fingers were the size of a 10 year old girl!!) As you can imagine, 2 springs from someplace flew out and I was in deep doo-doo!! Anyway, after about 6 tries, I ran the blow test. I definitely could not blow though Outlet C, and could blow in Inlet A by mouth with difficulty. I also got a little "buzz" sound when air passed  through from A. Question-- does this sound normal or should blowing through inlet A be easy. If it sounds like I still have a problem, can you tell me the likely culprit? he air dome spring placement seemed a little tenuous but I thought I finally did it OK.

 

Thanks for whatever help, advice, etc.   

Hugh
---------------------------------------------------------------

Reply: Sunday, November 16, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: Fuel pump

The info I reprinted on the website was exact off of OMC repair kit instructions.  I can remember when I did my first one without any info, boy was I lost.  That is when I bought a factory kit just so I could find out the procedure. 

 

I just went out into the shop & found a old fuel pump.  I can blow thru "A" without any restriction.  From my past experience, I think I tore mine apart about 6 times before I got it to function, (not reassembled right).  And it needs to be done on a kitchen table with no carpet on the floor & with helping hands from a helper & at times a set of tweezers.

 

LeeRoy Wisner

---------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: tim
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Subject: rubbery powerhead movement
 

could you tell me what is the acceptable movement of the powerhead? I have a lot of movement side to side and also front to back. I was watching the other day while I was accelerating and the motor was moving front to back while accelerating. If I need to replace the thrust bushings can you tell me what all gaskets I need to get because I guess if they need replacing I will need to pull the powerhead.

 

tim

--------------------------------------

Reply: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1
Subject: RE: rubbery powerhead movement

You do not mention the make/model or what you are working on, but by the e-mail that you sent this to I can assume it is an OMC 9.9 or 15hp outboard motor.

 

Movement should be minimal.  As the upper thrust mounts are a rubber anti-vibration connection between the pivot shaft unit & the clamp base.  If the rubber mounts are broken / unbonded from their attachments there will normally be more forward/aft movement than lateral movement simply because of the way the mounts are made.  Usually only the upper mounts go bad &  the lower rubber mounts are OK (these lower ones do not need the powerhead to be removed).

 

Again you do not mention the year of this motor, but I am assuming it is between 1974 & 1992 as the later ones were made differently & not as prone to breakage.  The only gasket you should need is the one between the powerhead & the exhaust housing  ("Gasket, powerhead to exhaust housing" #322161).  This number may have been superseded as the number I an supplying is taken from a 1978 parts book.  The upper mount assembly is #386033 & you will need 2 of these, which are not cheap anymore. Also if these mounts go bad the upper rubber seal unit will normal also be cracked to where you will be getting exhaust gasses blowing out between the 2 housings.  If it is really bad, you will also be getting excess exhaust noise there & many times black oil coming out there also.  This one seal is #318989 & seals both mounts.

 

If your motor is a 1993 to 2007 the upper mounts will be different but the gasket is the same.

 

You may have a problem in separating the powerhead from the exhaust housing as the gasket may stick to both surfaces & it is hard to get in there to separate them.  If this happens I show in one of my articles a trick to help start this procedure with a screwdriver & where to drive it in between the flanges in an effort to separate things. 
 

It may be best before trying to remove the powerhead to drop the lower unit as if you were replacing the water pump impeller, as it is easier to work on things & also easier to align the driveshaft into the crankshaft splines after the powerhead is installed first. 

 

 In one of my articles I tell about removing the 2 outside attachment bolts that hold these mount so the exhaust housing.  Also many times you will twist off the long internal 1/4" bolt.  If this happens you will then need to remove the exhaust housing from the steering bracket (as the twisted off threads will now be in the steering bracket boss).  This removal is no big deal as you simply remove the lower mount cover & the lower rubber mounting blocks will fall out & the two housings will come apart.  This bolt does not need to go into the steering boss as deep as it was originally.  I have found that if it does break, it will be at the threads.  Just re-tap the hole down to the broken bolt with the next size (5/16") & put in a shorter bolt.  You will have to drill the center metal upper mount tube out to accept the 5/16" bolt however.

LeeRoy

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-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 2
Subject: Johnson 9.9/15

Firstly, may I congratulate you on such a comprehensive article which I have found very useful in solving problems with a 9.9 sailmaster I have picked up. The detailed information has been brilliant in sorting things out as the engine I bought has turned out to be a bit of lemon. It was bought on E-Bay as a last minute deal so no time to view and see it test run. The last time I make that mistake! Been there-done that also, plus the fact that many of the sellers do not really know what they have.

It was not a long shaft as advertised but a Sailmaster, although at the time I did not know the difference, thanks to you I do now. It pumped no water and had no thermostat fitted when I began investigating further. The internals of the leg were so corroded that the water pipe was preventing the leg from separating. The shaft had been badly rebuilt and ground for the top gearbox seal and the impeller had given up the ghost.

The salt water had never been flushed so I decided to take the head off and despite lots of penetrating oil and gentle heat and persuasion the centre bolt on the transfer port side sheared off. Annoyingly the water jacket was in good shape and the barrels were spotless so I could have got away with it.

My question is, having removed the remainder of the seized bolt and lost part of the barrel thread, do you have any idea if the small lug area in the barrel is substantial enough to take a HeliCoil thread insert if I drill and tap it out. As I understand your question, the middle LH head bolt on the LH side looking forward is the one you are concerned about. I just looked at one of my disassemble blocks & yes it is thin inward to the water jacket, but there appears enough metal in the block to in stall a HeliCoil I have managed to salvage some of the thread but I am not happy it will be enough. The hole was packed with an epoxy metal filler with a greased bolt located in it as a first attempt and I will only know for sure when I try and torque down the head if that has worked. The epoxy may well hold since there is a water jacket between the bolt threads & the actual cylinder bore so the temperature would be at least at or below the 160 degrees that the thermostat is set at, & epoxy does not usually start deteriorating until about 300 degrees. I would be happier to tap and HeliCoil it if it will take it.
Congratulations on a brilliant , well written article.

I have managed to source the parts to convert it to a long shaft which is what I needed in the first place.
Mark

Surrey, England.

------------------------
Reply: Sunday, November 16, 2008
Subject: Johnson 9.9/15

Sorry for the delay, but I have been away from the computer for a much looked forward to hunting trip that proved fruitless.

LeeRoy Wisner

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-----Original Message-----
From: cam.stager@arcelormittal.com [mailto:cam.stager@arcelormittal.com]
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 7:51 AM
To: twinpine@compprime.com
Subject: RE: Johnson 9.9 outboard articles

Excellent, I will take the carb apart and look at the timing plate bearing.  I'll let you know how it turns out

Thanks again LeeRoy

--------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Cam
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:41 AM
Subject: Johnson 9.9 outboard articles

 

Just wanted to let you know your articles are fantastic.  I have a similar background to you in that I am a do-it-yourselfer, .  I am also very familiar with 2 stroke dirt bikes and rebuild and tune them routinely. and also have my machinist papers.  Your articles are very in depth, and have helped me purchase a pristine 1983 Evinrude 9.9. I believe I have read all of your 9.9 articles and will keep them on hand as long as I have this little 9.9   It's been one of those "best purchase for the year" deals. 

I do have one question for you which hopefully you could guide me forward on.  This 1983 9.9 was hardly ever used.  The paint is original and still shines, no paint missing from the prop.  I pulled the plugs and looked in at the pistons, and there was no carbon at all!  I can see the centre drill mark in the middle.  Compression is 120#s in both cylinders

Anyways, the motor runs great, idles perfect, starts easy and revs up well.  Needs a 1/2 pull to restart when warm.  Seems to pump lots of water, and the block does not get hotter than one would expect.  The motor pulls my little 12ft aluminum boat up to 31 kph, as clocked by my GPS.  However, every once and a while after the motor has been running wide open for 10 minutes or so, the motor will decide to just pick up and go another 5kph faster (to 36kph).  Almost sounds like the motor is running leaner.  Nothing has changed, the throttle is still wide open.  The extra speed continues until I have to slow the boat down.  It does not run out of gas or sputter at this new higher speed.  I can't figure this one out.  It does only occur when I am the only passenger in the boat.

I have checked throttle cam timing with stator
Proper engagement of the twist grip gears (although the twist grip pointer is in-between shift and start when turned to max throttle in neutral)

Proper spark plug gap
Fresh gas and oil

Any suggestions? if not, again excellent articles
Cam

----------------------------

Reply: Sunday, October 19, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Johnson 9.9 outboard articles

 

It sounds to me that there may be some debris floating in the carburetor & at some point it dislodges allowing more of a fuel flow.  On those old carbs, there is a small aluminum soft plug covering a passage hole.  If you can not find anything inside, ice pick out the plug, & check out under it.  You can usually reuse it without buying a whole kit by tapping it back into the hole & J-B welding the hole shut that you made with the ice pick.

 

Another thought might be that the timing plate bearing has collapsed to some degree & or someone has oiled it thinking it needs lubricant.  This really needs to be dry & can be reshaped in a micro-wave as I mention.  What it could be doing is that after a while when the motor warms up the centrifugal force of the flywheel against the ignition/charging coils may rotate the timing plate beyond where they were at the end of the twist grips movement, thus giving you more speed???

 

Sorry for the delay, but the wife & I were on a 2+ week vacation/business trip.

 

LeeRoy Wisner

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-----Original Message-----
From: Hal
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008

Subject: Johnson 10hp Sea Horse prop bearing & seal question

 

Hi!

 

I am trying to replace the leaking seals propshaft seals on an old 1960 Johnson Sea Horse 10hp and have a question. Is there another "O" ring seal INSIDE the bearing in the brass that needs replacing (see the attached photo)? There's a slotted area in the inside of the brass piece that holds the shaft but it doesn't appear to have ever had anything in it? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

PS: I found your website to be very helpful for a rank amateur like myself. Keep up the good work!

 

Thanks!

 

Hal

Oxford, GA

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Reply: Sunday, October 19, 2008 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Johnson 10hp Sea Horse prop bearing & seal question
 

I have not had one of those motors apart in years, but it seems logical that you are right in that it may well need a O-Ring there. 

 

On many of those old motors, you may have to improvise when things get worn out or parts missing.  A couple of places I have found that carry O-Rings are either automotive or plumbing supply stores.

 

One time I even repacked a lower unit with the wheel bearing grease that you use on boat trailers when the seals were worn out & not available.

 

Sorry for the delay as the wife & I were on vacation to see her sister & a business trip for over 2 weeks.

 

LeeRoy Wisner
-----------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: bob
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:39 AM
Subject: Thanks

 

I recently bought a 25' sailboat that has a 9.9 johnson sailmaster 1984 model year. Your web site has saved me much time and anxiety.. Thank you for your time. do you know of any source for the owners manual on CD for this unit or a download site or an inexpensive printed one? I have searched ebay with no luck.
thanks again bob
atlantic beach fl

--------------------------------

Reply: Sunday, October 19, 2008 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Thanks

 

You do not need an owners manual, as it only gives basics.  I have never seen an owners or service manual on a CD or even a download.  These service manuals were in a time when computers were not really known & I apparently am the only one interested in helping.  I however do would not consider doing a CD or even an addition to my articles as these service manuals are extensive, (books are about 5/16" thick with foldouts for electrical & water flow schematics.  You may have to bite the bullet & step back in time & purchase a service manual off e-Bay.  Owners manuals on e-Bay are cheaper, but you have to keep looking as the offerings change weekly. 

 

LeeRoy Wisner

----------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: EDDY
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:16 AM
Subject: (no subject)

 

Hi Lee Roy I recently bought a couple of Evinrude 9.9s'.   One is a 1989 10XP with 15HP conversion with its casing blown apart and the other is an 1978 Belgian  Model with its tiller handle missing,  can you tell me how to set up the timing plate to a start position so I can kick-start the brute up?   I have read your work on these engines and it is refreshing to know that there are still experts out there who are willing to take the time and effort to make life easier for the great unwashed,  I can assure you it is very much appreciated from this humble blacksmith in the Scottish borders,  hope you can help me with this request. All the best and

 

Kindest Regards
Eddy from Scottland 

 

PS I will probably sell the XP for spares engine casings are extortionate.

-------------------------------------------

Reply: Sunday, October 19, 2008 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: (no subject)

 

If you are having problems locating a start position on your twist grip throttle setting, or if you have a remote throttle, a method of locating the timing "START" position would be to advance the timing plate to where the carburetor arm roller just touches the timing plate cam, then advance it about 3/8" (9-10mm) more.  This positions the timing & throttle at about the start position in the carburetor.

 

LeeRoy Wisner

 

Back to OMC Info      Back to Ramblings

I am still learning about some things pertaining to these motors even after 25 years+, so information may change  often.   I do wish to thank some of the e-Bay sellers from whom I borrowed some of the above motor pictures.

Copyright © 2004-2009 LeeRoy Wisner  All Rights Reserved

Originally stated 01-16-2009, Last Updated 01-16-2009
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